Diver outputting glitched line plus uncertain whether vertical ramp is OK

[hewed]

Hi

My Diver arrived today, just in time for a party tonight. The unit is working fine except that it’s outputting one glitched line - see attached. The line changes colours as the screen changes, but not in line with what’s around in.

Sync is running Memory Palace > Diver > Fortress > ET Structure > LZX case connector > Cadet I > (via cable at the back) Cadet II. The Cadet I and II are in a separate case and the glitch is still there when I don’t power up that case (ie when only MP, Diver, Fortress and Structure are powered).

The glitch line doesn’t show when I take outputs from Memory Palace or Fortress.

I’ve tried reinstalling the firmware and change the socket the power is going into, but without luck.

Any ideas of what the problem could be?

[sumawave]

Hi hewed,
I have no idea whether your case is the same to my case. However I think Diver was born to have syncing issues from my experience. I managed to eliminate flickering of images with feeding back to the sync generator. If you are interested in it, see this

Diver flickering - #27 by sumawave

I know it is not a perfect solution because my Cadet 1 cannot receive an external video input in that way. And stackable cable was not its solution. Maybe TBC2 is needed.
I am longing for the updating of Divers firmware.

[hewed]

Great, thanks sumawave. That gives me some extra options.

It’s also helpful to know this is something that should be addressed in firmware ie isn’t a hardware problem needing a unit return (unless the LZX team think otherwise).

[hewed]

Some follow up work.

I tried changing the sync chain (now MP > Fortress > Diver > ET Structure > Cadet I > Cadet II), but no improvement.

An issue seems to be the vertical ramp is not a clean ramp. When I put the H+V through Doorway then straight to one channel on the RGB output, I’m getting reflections. I’m newbie to this, so happy to be told I’m missing something important.

Update - I get both the glitch and image doubling/reflecting problem described when outputting to the MP or direct to the Cadet II (which both output to my Roland v-4ex). But when I take RGB output from the MP to the Structure RBG ins, the Structure shows a clean image (despite the MP outputting the doubled/reflected image to both its HDMI and CVBS). Similarly, when outputting from the Diver into the Structure RBG ins, I get a clean ramp, no glitch. So feels like perhaps the Diver is working fine, perhaps this is a sync problem?

V ramp with slider set to 0, Diver > Cadet II green channel.

Image of the unit and signal flow from the last image

H+V, both reflections on, vertical position adjusted so the image is centered. Doorway is on solid and outputting straight to an output on the Cadet II. I think it should just be one diamond shape, but I’m getting multiples.

As above, but Doorway on outline.

Same as before, with vertical position slide set to 0.

[Z0NK0UT]

TBC2 and Chromagnon (and 2020) have delayed the Diver firmware update. Luckily, development of TBC2 firmware will actually benefit Diver as well–so progress has been made, despite the delay in releasing the firmware.

[Jesse]

Diver’s been kinda fucked from the beginning - needs a FW update. I hardly use it for this reason, which sucks because it’s a pretty sweet module with alot of capability - just doesn’t belong in any material for release because of that 1 line. Mines been collecting dust mostly since about a week after getting it, oh well.

IIRC mine is more centered

[sumawave]

Hi hewed,
I speculated from my experiences that Diver’s output should be fed back to the sync generator like Cadet1 to achieve stable images, for the time being. That might mean Diver’s output would be regarded as a external image (like an external camera). But MP doesn’t have external in (it means MP doesn’t generate Genlock), so it would be no use changing the order of the modules. I hope syncing issues of Diver will solved in the near future.

[sumawave]

Hi Z0NK0ut,
I feel very happy to hear it. I’m looking forward to both of Chromag and Diver’s FW update.

[hewed]

Thanks all. It’s helpful to know I’m not the problem.

[Fallinggirl]

Damn, I just bought Diver yesterday. I hope they fix the firmware

[Z0NK0UT]

It is important to note that, even with current firmware, Diver tends to work better with Visual Cortex as its sync source. TBC2 and Chromagnon will be similarly strong sync sources. Vidiot and Memory Palace were never intended to be sync sources for an entire system and so they don’t offer the best experience when providing sync for Diver. I anticipate this will change with the coming firmware updates.

[Fallinggirl]

I have the Cadet sync. Do you think that will work better than Vidiot?

[csboling]

The Cadet I sync generator does not output any RCA sync on its own, the sync output is just a buffered copy of the RCA input. If you also have the Cadet II color encoder working with your Cadet I you can try using one of the color encoder’s RCA outputs as a sync source, I’ve found this reasonably reliable and was syncing the Vidiot to my Cadet system this way for a while.

[Fallinggirl]

I wish I had Cadet II. If you know of anyone selling one I’d love to buy it. I guess I’ll have to wait for Chromagnon. Thanks for the help

[Robbertunist]

How about Chromagnon being a sync source for a Memory Palace? There should be no issues, right?
I’m asking because I’ve just gotten a Diver and I’m hesitant to even test it and thinking to avoid disappointment, I’ll wait for the next Firmware update.
Some people have asked about MP being compatable with big Chro sync wise.

[jwsmithwick1]

I got a Diver from the most recent batch. It works fine. There might have been a mislabeled sync in/thru. That’s an easy fix. I have that synced between my Visual Cortex and my Memory Palace.

One thing of note, I am powering my LZX system from an old Furman 1220 balanced power conditioner, which outputs balanced voltage. Balanced power conditioners are found in hospitals and air-control towers to increase the precision of MRI’s and Radars. Equitech also sells balanced conditioners. I’ve definitely noticed more line distortion when I have set up outside of my studio. Another avenue to consider.

[hewed]

I’ve got a TBC2 on pre-order from my fine local vendor. Hopefully using the TBC2 as sync source will resolve my issues.

In the meantime, I might experiment using my Cadet I as sync source per @csboling’s suggestion ie Cadet I > Cadet II > Structure > Diver > Fortress > MP.

@jwsmithwick1

I got a Diver from the most recent batch. It works fine. There might have been a mislabeled sync in/thru.

I think I had similar - the PCB labelling in/thru was the reverse of what the RCA sync ports were. Was easy fix (just swap cable), as you say.

[hewed]

Reporting back:

• I followed @csboling’s suggestion and ran sync from the Cadet I via Cadet II RGB out. The path is Cadet I > Cadet II > Structure > Fortress > Diver > MP. That fixed the Diver issues. Many thanks for the suggestion
• The MP is now an unhappy syncer, so I’m going to experiment with the order of the chain to see if I can all modules happily synced

I’d update the topic title to show this is resolved and add a note to my OP, but edit is not letting me do that.

Extra update: This sync signal flow is working, with some minor noise in the detail that I can live with (ie noise around hard lines). Signal flow is:
Cadet I > (via back of panel sync cable) Cadet II > MP > Diver > Fortress > Structure