Just an update, I’ve been emailing with Rick from Erogenous Tones and have attached the entire conversation below incase anyone had similar questions (simultaneously, I apologize that there is some overlap with the above thread)
This was in response to my request for some features to synchronize stop motion animation with CV, however as seen in this thread alone, everyone’s objectives and applications differ slightly.
I was wondering how the following features would mesh with everyone’s workflow?
Do you have any pointers/requests that would strengthen and diversify the application of such updates? Let me know, I’ll pass them on…
Rick:
There is a ‘NEXT’ in IMG that you can assign to a gate (or midi) to advance. Sorting is done alphabetically, so you’d just have to make sure you use a naming convention that makes sense for that. You could create a preset that points to the first file. It will wrap around when it hits the end of the file list. RIght now, STRUCTURE doesn’t support any directories to separate different animations, but I’d like to add in the future.
The speed of the image load will of course be relative to the size of the image.
CLIP does not do frame by frame at the moment. Not that I couldn’t add that. It will load a maximum of 16 video clips. All the clips are stored in RAM. If you had more than 16 clips (or you exceeded the maximum frames in the loaded clips to a certain point) it will stop loading anymore.
Me:
So in the Next Image scenario you mentioned would I be able to load a folder of images into a single preset and cycle through? Or would each preset be a different image thus limiting me to 64 frames total?
Rick:
You can fill the img folder on the front SD card with all the images. Then just point a preset to the first image. What is not supported is having multiple folders, so if you had multiple animations, you’d have to know where one set ends and another starts, and not generate a gate to go past the last image file.
A way around this would be separate front SD cards for right now.
Me:
But is this just one image per preset?
Rick:
No no. The preset will store a pointer to an image in the file list. When you hit NEXT it will advance and load the next file in the global IMG file list. The next is on file load, not next preset.
Me:
Oh, wow ok. So say you had a 6 frame animation, could you have the preset start with file “2M” and each time you send a CV trigger to NEXT it would advance until you reach “2R” and then it would go back to “2M”? Then could you have another preset pointing to “3A” ending with “3F”?
Rick:
The list of files is just one big list, so if you had:
2M
2R
3A
3F
if you had a preset pointing to 2M, then hit next 3 4 times, it would go: 2R, 3A, 3F, 2M. It will go through the whole list of files then wrap back around. It doesn’t have the concept of separate file lists right now.
Me:
So you wouldn’t be able to limit the number of files it would go through before returning to the pointer file? It would have to go through all of the images before recycling?
Rick:
That is correct. One thing you could do is reload the preset when you got to the end, then it would point back to the beginning. So if you were driving with either MIDI you could know exactly where you were and reload it, if that makes sense.
Me:
Would the preset reload be possible using a CV trigger? As an example would this be possible with something like Pamela’s Workout, with one clock reloading the preset and another division advancing through images?
You guys are very prolific when it comes to firmware updates, any idea when some of the IMG node capabilities we’ve discussed may become available?
Rick:
Yes, you can assign a preset to load from a gate input. You an also use a GATE->MIDI module to get more gates so you can trigger more things.
I would say this is high on the list of things I want. Although it might work a little differently.
What I want is to be able to select a bunch of files and have them stored in the preset. That way, it ONLY points to those files. It’s a little more work to add them, but then even for like the GEN node you could have a list of things you want to load.
I think this would REALLY be helpful for people, so they could swap between shaders easily!
Would that work for you? Like how many frames per movie are you thinking? (Just so I have an idea).
Me:
That would work, in fact I believe the method you outlined above with a selection of files per preset would be ideal, I was just seeing if there was a current workaround that would achieve the same effect.
I’ve be discussing this topic with people a bit on the LZX forum because I wanted to determine if Structure was capable of cycling through media files like the Memory Palace does in this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDPB47sZsio So as far as the number of frames is concerned I would be happy with something like the video demonstrates. However, I would want to have a number of different sequences stored to access for different songs/concepts.
I must confess, I have next to no understanding of Shaders and many of the features in the Memory Palace don’t necessarily fit my personal aesthetic, but these two modules seem like the best options for my desired applications. It would be wonderful to be able to trigger frames with a Eurorack sequencer or even better, scrub through a series of frames in synchronization with an LFO or Envelope.
Rick:
Well if I add a way to step through frames of a video file, that might be even better! With like a gate. Because then you can use the abilities already in video to randomly seen in the video with a voltage. (it’s just a different mode).
at 640x480 you can have 400 frames. At 320x240 you can have 1600 frames. (all within up to 16 files. Those are TOTAL frame counts)
Me:
Yeah, that was definitely one of the workarounds I was considering. Having thematic sets contained to video files would also have its own performative merits with potential for expansion, transitions, and randomization. Again, I don’t have a Structure in front of me (yet…) but I feel as though “Pos allows you to use the CONTROL parameter to set the position in a video mapped across the whole range of CV values!” would be very helpful in this scenario.
Me: Just a follow up, I was looking around some more and it appeared as though XY scrolling and Zoom was unavailable for the IMG node as of December 2019 but possibly added in February, can you confirm this? If they are controllable by CV I believe they would add exponentially to the potential of even a short series of frames. Are these parameters available in the Clip Node as well?
Also, as I mentioned before, I’ve been discussing this topic on other forums. Do you mind if I share our thread to see if any other members have pointers on the implementation of frame by frame Clip node stepping vs. IMG node navigation within folders? We all have different objectives and mine are focused on unadulterated images but others may see other applications related to their own workflow.
Rick:
Hello! Absolutely you can share anything I’ve said!
Yes, IMG node now has shader support so there are different shaders to do different things, like zoom, rotate and all kinds of other things (like a ken burns type effect as well).
CLIPS do not have a special shader, but, you can load a node with EFX after then and use EFX for zoom and such. Clips are much more restricted as they only handle specific sizes.
We are going to test today how well stepping through images work. I am going to add an increment mode for CLIPS, just so there are options out there!
I was also very much on the fence, but decided to give it a go, and haven’t looked back since. It can do sooo many interesting things. I don’t want to bash other people’s tastes, of course, each to their own, but a lot of the stuff I saw with Structure before I bought just wasn’t my thing - but after getting it, I can safely say that there simply has to be something in it for everyone, whatever you may like - it can glitch out, it can do very minimal stuff really well, more full on psychedelic stuff, it can look more traditional if you wish and so on. The pallette is just enormous.
