Modulation sources and self-evolving patches

Hi all,

I’ll be expanding my humble Eurorack, and one of the things I’d like to add is additional modulation sources. I currently have Maths, Malekko AD/LFO-V, Sensory Translator and an outboard Korg SQ-1 for this purpose. They are all nice in their own rights, but I’d like to add something that would make it possible to create more “generative” patches that evolve over time by themselves. Elements of randomness and chaos are welcome, as long as it’s somewhat controllable. The idea is to let certain parameters control themselves to add a bit of unpredictable dynamic, while other things stay under tighter control by sequencers or the ST. Sort of like a “Krell patch” for video, maybe.

There is, luckily, a huge amount of Eurorack modules that could facilitate this – but does anyone have any specific experiences? I want a bit of fluidity that I suspect certain music-oriented modules may not give.

Currently eyeing the Triple Sloth and Wogglebug. Open to any and all recommendations, though! My use case is performance-oriented. CV control over parameters that it would make sense for would be ideal.


I would recommend the Ultra Random Analog for a random CV source. Most LZX modules have cv attenuation knobs so that might be sufficient for voltage scaling but Bridge is a nice utlity module to have in the rack regardless.

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Marbles, perhaps?

and as it’s be digital and open-source maybe possible to scale the outputs in the firmware

I was thinking of this with the new Tides as well

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I use an ornaments and crimes with my video stuff pretty effectively. Its nice because in some modes all 4 outputs are related so you can turn one of the encoders and have it do something interesting. Also I think there is a sub menu that lets you attenuate the signals internally for 0 - 1 V range. If not I’m sure you could fudge it in the calibration menu.


The Permutation and Variant are my most recent non-video modules, so I’m still exploring them. I really like how easy they make it to attenuate levels, and of course the gate/shift register outputs can trigger the AD/LFO-V module. So now I’m tempted to get a 2nd AD/LFO-V. :smiley:

Small tip: when clocking using a trigger, logic inversion helps. This turns the trigger into a gate that’ll keep the AD/LFO-V high until the next trigger. Doing this with the clock to the Permutation results in all the gate/shift register outputs following. Otherwise they’re all triggers and the AD/LFO-V also be triggered instead of gated.

I’ve used a couple of Sloths (16s and 16m versions) for a few years, but they need heavy attenuating at the video end. However, they’re great for modulating PR frequency. My other fav chaotic modulation source is a Benjolin.

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Cool, thanks all! Many possibilities, not enough HP … @nerdware, the Permutation and Variant seem interesting. Anything that gets more leverage out of the AD/LFO sounds like a good idea – I have a feeling that I’m not using that one to its full potential yet.

I get the feeling that the 12HP Permutation should be enough, but without having tried I’m not quite sure – is there anything very important in the 18HP one that I wouldn’t want to miss out on?

I have that feeling, too. I’ve been thinking a lot about ways to get more from my AD/LFO-V, particularly in combination with Permutation.

Page 3 of the Permutation’s manual covers the differences between the versions. I think you’ll need to explore all the 18hp feature so you can know what they can do for you. It really depends on what other modules you have and how you use them. I can only talk about my own experience, and I’m still discovering what I can do. So I recommend you read page 3 of the manual and look into what the 18hp version can do for you that the smaller versions can’t.

Regarding the AD/LFO-V in general, I’ve noticed that retriggering before the current AD cycle has ended appears to reset the output. This often creates ‘glitchy’ effects which you may or may not want. Slowing the clock to Permutation may help there, but I’ve been thinking a lot recently about how to ensure the AD stays on for multiple clocks and stays off until the cycle has safely completed. A clock divider would be an obvious solution, either between the clock source and the Permutation or between the gate out and the AD/LFO-V. I don’t have a divider module, so I can’t test this yet.

Another solution might be toggling a flip-flop. So the Doepfer A-150-8 intriques me. The switches can be controlled by Permutation gate outs in a variety of ways. A single switch can AND-gate to Permutation gate outs. A switch set to toggle can function as a flip-flop combined with an AND-gate. Nevermind the linked-switch options.

So I’ve been thinking a lot about clock dividers and flip-flops.:boom: Has anyone here used such modules with Permutation? I have the A-151 Quad Sequential Switch and find that very useful with Permutation. It can even function as a basic clock divider. With the AD/LFO-V, you can create a rotating quad AD. That’s another way to avoid, or at least reduce, the glitching effect.

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BTW, ‘glitch’ is probably the wrong word for what I’m seeing. “Hard transition” sounds too technical, but might be more accurate. I like smooth transitions for animation rate signals, sharp changes also work. I definitely indulged in that after adding a Pendulum to my system. Dual square waves crossfaded at video rates was seriously fun. Maybe I’ll add a lag module someday. It looks like Stages could do that using single-stage Ramps. [sigh] So many options!