Issue Using Tip Top Stack Cables With LZX Modules

Hello!

So, I’ve noticed that when using tip top stackable cables within patches, that they are quite touch sensitive which can sometimes cause visual interference.

I don’t have any issues at all using my other standard modular cables while patching … only these.

Has anybody else experienced problems when using tip top stackable cables with LZX modules?

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cheers,
as someone who worked for years at a modular store, and as a modular synth user for many years i think i can say for sure that stackables have never been a stable solution - they do work in feedback loops as a secondary layer, or when i transmit video into cv ins, but they can let you down sometimes with the interference mentioned above.

knock wood, i have never experienced issues when i was using buffered mults with cables though.

also sad to see that the overall trustworthiness and durability of patch cables have gone down the road pretty badly in the last few years (bending jacks, contact errors or complete dysfunctionality hits you just too early)

on a positive note, my doepfer patch cables are limited in their own ways (e.g. they do not fit in some ins or outs (a mechanical issue with the jack itself which can be addressed if you disassemble and adjust the jack), but god, they still deliver after 10 years of heavy use. never had to get rid of one except the 200cm cables.

maybe it could be time for lzx or some other makers to go for new quality standards - or just go back to the ones they used to have. :rainbow:

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It would be fantastic if the new DIY range of LZX PCBs had a jack profile that was also setup for a banana jack socket. I’ve seen this on a couple of PCBs in the past but it’s been a couple of years. Most likely a Random Source or something like the 73-75 by the Human Comparitor.

Yeah, I use like 100 of them & it means replacing jacks every now & again and being perpetually apprehensive about whether the cables are working proper or not.

I keep a pile of “questionables” on the floor, if one acts fussy I immediately excommunicate it to the floor. Every now & again I’ll go through that pile and diligently test them. I try to keep mental tabs on which jack was giving me fuss too because sometimes they need a little wrangling & it’s not actually the cables fault

Try not stacking more than 2-3 ends on top of each other, if you want to go big pull from the other end of the cable. Tall stacks is bad juju, it’ll rek your jacks.

Couldn’t imagine using mults, I’m constantly stacking.

Too bad tip-top sued the shit out of the competition, be nice if there were more options on the market

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I used them at first, worked great on vidiot, but sometimes had the same issues listed here when I got more modules. Buffered mults I learned are safest and remove interference noise, so I mostly use Bridge’s mults now.

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Would banana jacks even work with LZX? I don’t understand the electronics well enough. I do know that banana cables aren’t grounded. Would that increase the likelihood of issues with high frequency video signals?

As for Stackables, I’ve been using them for the past year and haven’t noticed any issues other than capacitance on longer cable lengths. I.e., any Stackcable longer than ~30 cm will introduce horizontal blur in HD video.

Definitely, stacking too much is very bad juju. I never, ever stack more than a total of two plugs to a single jack. The risk of damage from the leverage of a tall stack is too horrible to contemplate.

So I always consider those two factors in any patch topology: cable length and stack height.

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Yeah, nah. Banana = just the tip. All grounds are already grounded. Plus, with passive cable splits, you’re just dividing an analog voltage. There’s a measurable signal loss, on each leg, every time that happens. That’s why there are buffered mults.

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Please explain it to me like I’m a four-year-old. If all of the patch points are already grounded, why do TS cables exist? Why does the Eurorack standard, and the LZX standard, specify that jacks and plugs must have two conductors, a voltage and a ground?

the “all the grounds are already grounded” is related to Banana cable synths… not eurorack/lzx standard cables

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Still trying to understand this. Are you saying that the patch points are internally grounded in systems that use banana plugs? If that is true, then wouldn’t there be substantial difference in the PCB design between the mini jack and banana jack variants?

Also, regarding mults, buffered or passive. I thought that a passive splitter would cut the current in half, not the voltage. If it was the voltage, then you could easily see/hear the difference. I.e. picture brightness would drop to half. Which it does not.

Rather, if you use passive mults you run the risk of interference, dirty signal. Too many may result in the signal collapsing. Like a chain of monitors. Unless you have an active buffer circuit, there’s a limit on how many TVs you can daisy chain before you lose sync.

For my purposes I never split a signal into more than three inputs, usually just two. Stackables have been awesome as long as I keep the lengths as short as possible.

As for Bridge mults, I do use them, but unfortunately the outputs are unipolar, rejecting the negative signal. Which is weird, because the Fader submodule is bipolar.

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You are correct about voltage vs current. But dc will droop.

So there is some v v minor dc voltage drop on long cables and large passive distribution. It’s nothing close to the consideration needed for “in tune” audio modular stuff. And in certain video synthesis practices you can find it and decide where it matters to you. For me it does not.

You WERE the one to notice independent processing of swatch feeds to be recombined in swatch can cause propagation issues. This is kinda in that realm. Something to just own and work with. Use it.

SUM/DIST is the modern lzx buffered Mult

But a buffered Mult will add propagation delays :melting_face:

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Also i solely patched stacks in my first 3-4 years. And i very much miss the flexibility of cross patching (not so much mixing) but rolling around with $600 plus in patch cables that eventually die is tough.

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You mean the h-phase delay? Yeah it’s something one must deal with. I had to run some signals through extra channels of PROC and SMX just to insert delay and get things to line up. Would be great to have that dedicated delay line module.

Will Sum/Dist pass a bipolar signal?

(sorry if this has drifted too far off topic)