Gen3 Utility Power Issues

[Z0NK0UT]

Edit: A recall for affected modules has been announced.

Comments moved from All About Stairs, as this seems to be an issue that affects the new Gen3 utility modules (which share a power board).

@Abiogenosis

Excited! I just got my stairs today, but I’m experiencing some issues. I actuallly cannot get the unit to power on if it’s plugged into my case. However, if I plug the unit in after I’ve powered my case on it works.

I have a MDLR Case with with the stock Doepfer PSU3. I even unplugged a number of modules to confirm it wasn’t some sort of power drain issue.

Any thoughts?

@rempesm

I had a similar issue with the Eurorack power input and chalked it up to my PSU being too loaded down. Have you tried powering it up with the 12V DC barrel connector? That has worked 100% for me. I haven’t tried powering it up with the Eurorack connector as the only module on a Capsule yet.

@Abiogenosis

Unfortunately, I don’t have a 12V DC barrel connector to attempt this. I unpluged all modules from my system apart from my Mainbow, Memory Palace and Stairs to test if it was a draw issue (I need the Mainbow / Memory palace to get some output at minimum) and I still experience the same issue.

I went even further and plugged only my Mainbow and Stairs in and still could not get Stairs to work on powerup. I had to plug the module into the Euro board after powering the case on to get it to function.

EDIT
My MDLR case is two pieces with two separate power supplies as well so I plugged my Mainbow into one and the Stairs into the other. They were both the only modules on each of the two PSUs and I still experienced the same issue.

[Z0NK0UT]

It appears that some eurorack power supplies do not provide sufficient current at power-on for the recently-designed power PCB used by the new Gen3 utility modules. So far this issue affects Proc, Stairs, and Sum/Dist when used with TipTop, Intellijel TPS30 MAX, Pulplogic LBZ54, Arturia Rackbrute 3U and Doepfer power supplies.

One immediate solution is to unplug and reconnect the module’s ribbon cable with the eurorack supply already powered on. Another solution is to use the 12V barrel connection on the back of the module to supply power, in lieu of eurorack ribbon connection.

This issue is being investigated for immediate correction.
Note that Matte, due to its low current draw, powers on correctly with all eurorack supplies.

[Abiogenosis]

Thank you for your quick reply Chad!

Also shout out to @brownshoesonly for doing some ad hoc diagnosis late last night in the LZX discord

[HeWhoWantsJeans]

The issue, as I understand it, sounds similar to some issues I’ve had with other modules that were solved by using a WMD Soft Start. For those affected but looking to use the Eurorack header - has anyone tried (or would) a WMD Soft Start work as a fix?

Soft Start Module

[creatorlars]

We did quite a lot of testing on this yesterday, and will continue to investigate different solutions to this issue.

So far we can say that Tip Top Audio Mantis PSU and Doepfer PSU3 are the only EuroRack power supplies effected by the issue so far. These are power supplies we’ve recommended in the past, and they are great power supplies, but there is a cold start interaction between these PSUs and the latest revision of our 12V power backpack board (used in one variant or another on all of our current modules.)

So soft start relay based fixes like recommended above might resolve the problem – we are going to test what’s available out there and confirm what works here. We picked up a Mantis case to use for testing.

Our most recommended fix is to power your modules using 12V power via the DC barrel. We offer the DC Distro module as one option, but there are plenty of affordable 12V supplies available out there, designed for LED lighting and CCTV markets. Search on Amazon or B&H Photo Video for example, for 12V DC power supply with splitter for example.

Of course, I understand some of you need these modules to be compatible with your existing case/power solutions. So we’ll come up with some low impact solutions there, one way or another. It just will take some time to do the testing and revision.

So get in contact if you are effected by this issue and we’ll do our best to keep you all updated.

[thenoiseoftime]

What about the other GEN3 modules? Have been made tests already?

[Nightmaneuver]

Damn I have both types of PSU’s only.
I had noticed just the other day my FKG3 wasnt working a reboot fixed it.
Now the 12v distros on the website are sold out.
When will more distros come back in stock?

[analogbrainsurgeon]

The power issue is pretty big to be honest. Will the LZX power distros we ordered last year (or whenever) actually ship at the same time as TBC2? I ordered mine a LONG time ago and the information available just says that they’ll ship with TBC2, but given the delays, why not just ship those out to people that ordered them a year ago?

[brownshoesonly]

We don’t break up orders unless you want to pay a second shipping charge or some other circumstance exists.

Always recommended to buy In stock and preorder items separately fir this reason.

Last I checked Friday. Perfect circuit has dc distros. New distros were originally on this week’s manufacture list

[wednesdayayay]

haha yeah
I’ve got so many cables that I’ve added to preorders. It will be a nice surprise when it all comes

[analogbrainsurgeon]

I would argue that the ‘other circumstance’ would be the massive delay… maybe like a goodwill gesture to get people what they’ve paid for long ago, especially since the power distros now seem mandatory to use Gen3 modules. That said, I’m not mad or anything, I’m super excited about the impending releases, but as much of a huge advocate of LZX as I am, some of these practices are clearly turning off long time customers. I want everyone there to succeed in the mission, and I am very much looking forward to the future. Hopefully TBC2 and Chromagnon get released soon and all of these concerns are a thing of the past. Best of luck and most positive encouragement to all of you that are doing the work to bring the product to market.

Also, at the time I bought the power distro and added it to my TBC2 order the power distro was not yet released and the claim was that they’d be released together, if that clears some confusion about my point of view on this.

[dryodryo]

Ha, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. I guess this is what happens to early adopters. I seriously thought the Doepfer PSU3 was the gold standard, and the Gen3 power was the best of the best. I spent a lot of time in Excel calculating power draws and determined that I didn’t need a DC Distro in this A-100G6. Oh well, best laid plans of mice and men. I guess it’s a Perfect Circuit order for me. The Soft Start module would be way too expensive, I’d need one for each Gen3 Module.

Please add me to the list of affected users. If there’s a power board revision I’ll want to get these PROCs and STAIR swapped out.

Thanks,

Aaron

[dryodryo]

Frak, Perfect Circuit sold out already. Now I have to pay extra and get one shipped from Scotland.

I would say this was a fumble

[pbalj]

A DC distro is not necessary. You can get a 12V psu from many sources, ex. amazon, and use a daisy chain cable like that used for powering guitar pedals.
like this:

just make sure the physical dimensions of the barrel are the same, et voila.

[analogbrainsurgeon]

That’s not really an acceptable solution in this case. Why should someone have to buy ANOTHER power solution when the first “best” one was already paid for over a year ago at a premium price? I get that you’re trying to be helpful and I appreciate that, but it’s getting to the point that it’s hard to let the company off the hook for some of these delays and missed promises. I maintain my optomism, but being told reasonable observations and concerns are in fact not real concerns is itself unreasonable.

[pbalj]

I’m just offering alternative solutions for people who haven’t purchased a DC distro, or whatever the case may be.

[analogbrainsurgeon]

Absolutely, I appreciate your suggestion and hope that my reply wasn’t taken as a personal slight against you. My intent is to have the root issues addressed, and my posts about this are meant in good faith and with admiration for the overall vision of Lars and LZX. I really enjoy this community and the people that make it up, especially the few people designing and producing these very unique tools. I maintain my goodwill and optimism and understand the reason for things being the way they are currently is not a simple issue to address in general. At the same time, as a customer I expect any company I do business with (in personal life or in business life) to treat me as an intelligent being and to attempt to correct issues to the best of their ability when things go wrong. There are good and bad ways to handle these issues, and we’ve seen the wrong way to ask for clarification and help with expectations in the past and this is my attempt at doing this the right way. I definitely don’t want to give Lars heartburn when it seems we’re on the home stretch of a multi-year goal. For what it’s worth I think he and the team have good intentions and are trying their best and I appreciate that we have these tools because of their dedication to a very unique, niche vision. I REALLY like LZX and have invested 10s of thousands in the ecosystem with no regrets. I hope what I consider reasonable complaints and inquiries are received by LZX and the community in a constructive way.

[Nightmaneuver]

Damn went to bed and woke up with Perfect Circuit out of stock too.
Good luck on the re-stock. I might just make my own. Cheers for the hard work!

[creatorlars]

@thenoiseoftime

What about the other GEN3 modules? Have been made tests already?

The issue effects the new version of the rear power supply PCBA only. We had to revise because of being unable to source the power supply LDOs originally used, and one of the new parts has introduced the issue. It’s the kind of thing that will inevitably pop up so long as there are massive delays or unexpected availability in the electronics component market. At least we just had to revise our power board (and can revise it again) instead of having to revise all modules.

I seriously thought the Doepfer PSU3 was the gold standard, and the Gen3 power was the best of the best.

If ideal or “best” is the goal, the best option would be avoiding EuroRack power supplies entirely, and use 12V DC directly to power the Gen3 modules.

[creatorlars]

We’ll take good care of everyone dealing with this, don’t worry! It could be that we can resolve the issue with a simple rework procedure. It could be that we can do a mail swap for a new power board. I just can’t start making promises on how or when, before we have a tested solution (this just came up on Friday for me.) So the suggestion to use 12V DC power is just the best solution we have, for now. Y’all don’t need to go replanning or rebuilding your systems over this. Just give us a few days to come up with the right solution. We’ll keep you updated.

We’ve also purchased the EuroRack PSUs with the issues reported so we can make sure any revisions of the PSU board in the future don’t have any issues with startup.

If we want to look on the bright side, this scenario could be way worse! We only have to worry about an issue on a single board here, one that can be replaced by the user if necessary with a screwdriver. So having a modular power architecture is going to pay off for us here. Otherwise we’d be looking at needing to revise several PCBs instead of just one.