That’s some very tasty feedback! Are you moving the camera or mixing other signals, like oscillators, to perturb the image? Is the camera aligned with the screen?
You can see from the pic I posted earlier why I don’t work quite like that. I tend use a handheld camera and/or more funky orientations, as that works better with my space constraints. That may be the key to the differences in our working styles.
Thanks.
Like I stated in my post above, this is not my work. just an example.
"Video Feedback’ by Japhy Riddle
None of this imagery was computer generated.
This is an example of very controlled video feedback using all analog 1970’s equipment. Shot with a Sony AVC-3400 vidicon tube camera aimed at a Quazar black and white CRT, and fed into it via RF—This was pre video-in. One advantage of using RF is that tuning away from the correct channel frequency results in noise (static) being introduced into the signal, which adds all the “wormy” detail. "
Yes, I remember TV sets like that well.
E.g. I used a B/W portable TV for years. It could run on internal batteries, off a car battery or a wall socket. I only used the latter. The image on that 5" screen was so crisp, I just loved it. The tuning knob was rotary, so I learned the order of the channels and how far to turn the knob between them, so I could switch channels between commercial breaks in an instant. I’d channel flip as quickly as if I was pushing buttons, but only in a sequential order. After a while it felt very natural. The TV set was so well designed, so that knob was the largest and easiest to turn. The others were for volume, brightness and contrast. I think there was also a headphone socket, but I don’t recall. All housed in rugged dark green plastic. So of course it was called the “Commando 505”. You can still find them on ebay. Recommended, if you want a cheap, small B/W CRT. Just add an RF converter and point a B/W camera at it.
I sold mine years ago. I loved it but I don’t think I’d want to use it now. However, some people out there still seem to.
I use CRTs, and I use lcd.
LCDs are convenient and small, but the image quality is pretty crap on the ones I have. Viewing angle is typically atrocious. I may photograph a crt, or an lcd, depending on the look I want. I always compare them to amps. This is like “why do people use tube amps?” because it adds some quality the user enjoys.
Something no one has addressed yet is using CRTs for scan processing, oscillographics, vector stuff. The only way for me to do that stuff is with a crt. I don’t have a stroke to raster converter, but even if i did, I would still use the crt too.
I’ve drifted away from rescanning a typical tv crt, I don’t like the surface distortion, and the varied moire it imparts, I mostly rescan off an lcd…
I can understand the vector rescanning argument, at least when using an oscilloscope. I have one of these myself, originally for another purpose. Like a CRT monitor, I don’t yet have any space for it, but I’ve certainly tested it with my video synth. While I’d prefer a solid state way to do vector rescanning, I don’t know of any device that can do that, so a 'scope with an XY mode seems to be the only option. If you can find one with a Z mod input, that’ll be even better. My 'scope has both and a removable graticule. It should be ideal.
I’ve no idea how you use a TV to do vector rescanning. I’ve watched a Youtube video that demonstrated it, but said and showed nothing at all about how to modify a TV to do this. The DIY part would be beyond most people, anyway, but it would’ve been nice to have seen how it was done.
BTW, the displacement effect I used in the last video I posted uses a technique very much like vector rescanning, but done entirely in software. I used the resulting images to softkey between pairs of FB videos.
I’d love to see that done in hardware, but all the vector rescanning videos I’ve seen have just used the 'scope image directly. I wonder how much more can be done using the 'scope image as modulation? I’d like to try that someday, if I have ever find space to get my 'scope set up properly and with a camera to rescan the screen.
You’re reminding me of the many things I want to do, and why I want to do them. Thanks!
I think a good, simple, general answer to “why CRTs?” is “because they’re different from LCDs.” If someone can tell the difference between a CRT and a LCD, that alone is reason enough why someone might want to use one instead of the other. They’re tools in our discipline, and they can provide different results, so why not use either? A person might prefer one over the other, but that’s just personal opinion. Given the nature of the work that we all do, it seems only natural that we’d be more interested in (and own more) CRTs than the average person on the street.
Yes, I think may be the simplest, most honest reason. It may also explain my preference for LCDs. 
Here’s a near perfect CRT for video feedback. A 17" Trinitron. I remember using one of these in the 90s. Beatiful. Hey, I even know the seller, via another forum. Just make sure you have enough space for it. If I had a spare table waiting for a monitor like this, I’d buy it. However, I don’t even have the space to store it until I do - and its very unlikely I ever will.
So I just hope somebody who’ll appreciate this monster will buy it instead. Perhaps it’ll be someone on this forum, but more likely it’ll be a retrogamer. There seem to be a lot more of them around, and they’ll want a CRT for exactly the same reasons as you. They might even have more space for it, if they have a single console. OTOH, a CRT for each console would take up a lot more space. Imagine if your video rig was made entirely of Vessels and monitors like this, one monitor per Vessel. You could quickly fill a room like that.
Actually, I do remember a room like that, in ths 90s, packed with computers. Three of them used this very model of monitor. So 90s.
Gateway DX17S 17" CRT Monitor with Sony Trinitron 17FQ2-E5 tube, 1152x864 @ 75Hz
SOLSTICE - Performance at Flux Factory
I’ve been following this artist for a while now, but this video was uploaded just 2 days ago. Nice timing.
Skip 3:32 in to see the camera/monitor rig. A few seconds later you’ll see the results. Please note the similarity to the video you posted. That’s clearly an LCD being used. Perhaps something other than the monitor is important to this style of feedback? Can anyone here work out what it might be? It appears to be a lens filter thing.
I did not say you cannot get that type of feedback only with CRT monitors.
It just can look very good on them.
Compare both video’s and you will see differences .
It is like @joem said. personal preference. That, in combination with budget
edit: the clip of Solstice can also be prerecorded feedback with live camera effects
it seems to be a very specific feedback image (4:28)
Thanks for sharing. I find her gimbal head/LCD rig to be very interesting. I imagine it affords a resolution of control that is really helpful. Can anyone ID the model of the camera?
I can’t even guess whether the camera is analogue or digital. It looks interesting, whatever it is. Clearly the LCD is digital, but does it take a composite input?
I’m most intrigued by the mounting for the monitor and, of course, the filter thing. Note how she whips out a filter to change the feedback. I can’t figure out how removing a filter produces a circular keying effect, but I may be misunderstanding something important.
So many questions!
Oh, yeah. Very tasty. Thanks.
BTW, I use cheap Chinese tripods for my CCTV cameras. You can see in the photo I posted why I don’t use accessories like gimbols. One of them has a spirit level built in.
However, my cameras are very light. Some are even smaller and lighter. Heavier cameras will need something much sturdier. I have a Manfrotto clamp and an arm for mounting hardware like that.
This is way off-topic for this thread, but still relevent to our interests. Some of us use small monitors like that. I can easily imagine how my smaller cameras could work with a tiny monitor, making a very compact video feedback system.
Another detail of the rig used in the SOLSTICE video that intrigues me is the focal length. The smallest monitor size I’ve used so far is 8" and the largest is 17". My lenses are all 4-12mm, which covers all my needs so far. So now I’m thinking about filters. I’ve been using a videosynth for my “filtering”, which works very of course. It’s also very on-topic for this forum. So I’ve neglected the more lo-tech options. I know others have explored them, but I don’t recall ever seeing examples of their use before now.
I can imagine how a small feedback rig like this, with small videosynth (Chromagnon, Vidiot etc) in the fb path, plus a projector could make very portable system for live work. I could downsize my whole system to something like that, if it worked well enough for me.
The artist and performer in the Solstice video is Paloma Kop:
She uses a variety of filters in her work, and the color effects in the early portion of the performance feature a polarizing filter. The feedback was definitely NOT prerecorded.
The gimbal in use is this model:
She is friendly and approachable and easy to reach via her website.
extra credits for her then, as that feedback liveset is very good!
Yes, she has an excellent website. I found several interesting resources via the links etc.
Indeed. I do videosynthesis on DLP projectors and mainly CRT’s. I find that CRT’s apart from being different to each other as well (I have a 12cm and a 28cm, each one looks and feels different), they also have a certain glow and presence that I would miss from an LCD or a digitally projected (even upscaled) image. Yes, digital screens also have those and some of you are mastering them in several ways.
…Before I forget: I live in Central Europe, where most artists are constantly broke. CRT’s are cheap as hell (or even free) and are available in large varieties. I am thinking about buying a 3rd monochrome one.